From louis.desjardins at gmail.com  Sat May  5 09:17:19 2012
From: louis.desjardins at gmail.com (Louis Desjardins)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 11:17:19 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus GUI and development
Message-ID: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The Scribus GUI has been discussed intensively at LGM in Vienna.

I think we need a home for GUI discussions and development and I suggest we
create gui.scribus.net

I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it non-coders
such as C?dric, Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!), myself and
possibly others who are interested in Scribus in general and in the GUI in
particular and who are ready to give time and effort to improve the program.

Also, I suggest that we very soon organise a work session with GUI
specialist Peter Sikking who has offered to help us.

This work session could take place in July at RMLL or sooner and elsewhere
if we do a partially remote meeting using Skype or other means. That way, I
and Peter Linnell could participate even if the meeting is to take place in
Europe.

Scribus needs care.

Louis
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From gpittman at iglou.com  Sat May  5 12:40:32 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 08:40:32 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus GUI and development
In-Reply-To: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FA51FC0.7040607@iglou.com>

On 05/05/2012 05:17 AM, Louis Desjardins wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Scribus GUI has been discussed intensively at LGM in Vienna.
>
> I think we need a home for GUI discussions and development and I suggest
> we create gui.scribus.net <http://gui.scribus.net>
>
> I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it
> non-coders such as C?dric, Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!),
> myself and possibly others who are interested in Scribus in general and
> in the GUI in particular and who are ready to give time and effort to
> improve the program.
>
> Also, I suggest that we very soon organise a work session with GUI
> specialist Peter Sikking who has offered to help us.
>
> This work session could take place in July at RMLL or sooner and
> elsewhere if we do a partially remote meeting using Skype or other
> means. That way, I and Peter Linnell could participate even if the
> meeting is to take place in Europe.
>

I've started a wiki page:

http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/User-Developer_Interaction

mostly just to try to get something going on this topic. I want to see 
if Alex will create a new category, so that we can end up with an 
automatic index for pages about this sort of this. I might turn out that 
it would benefit from moving to another site like gui.scribus.net, as 
Louis suggests (though I don't know if all of this is always about the 
GUI), but at first I don't personally like the added complexity, maybe 
better to wait until there is some significant content first.

So perhaps the category might be something like 'User-Developer 
Interaction', then each page could add the appropriate tag at the top.

Greg


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Sat May  5 20:32:03 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 22:32:03 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus GUI and development
In-Reply-To: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120505223203.223eb431@digiteis>

hi

> I think we need a home for GUI discussions and development and I
> suggest we create gui.scribus.net

after long discussions a committee of tired LGMers
would like to propose ux.scribus.net instead...

ciao
a.l.e


From malex at scribus.net  Sun May  6 16:16:37 2012
From: malex at scribus.net (Oleksandr Moskalenko)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 12:16:37 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Sort out the svn repository branches
Message-ID: <0D8B8116-0C1B-445D-886E-28A9409253F3@scribus.net>

I'm converting out svn repository to git to create a mirror repository and a git<->svn gateway that can be used to allow easier commit access to more contributors via gitolite access control. However, I'm not certain about the status of some of the svn branches and hope that people involved in their creation could help sort them out. I need to know which ones need to be deleted, which ones converted into tags, and which ones should be left as feature branches. 

For reference, I'm thinking of applying several major principles from the http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/ model to the git repository, though I am not sure we need to delete the release branches right away as they are pretty long-lived in our developmental model. Perhaps, applying this model can lead to shorter developmental cycles between releases and much easier merging of contributions outside of the small core team.

Thanks,

Alex.

  remotes/Scribus - ???
  remotes/ScribusOIF - ???
  remotes/ScribusOIF at 15499 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOIF at 454 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOIF at 8494 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOIF at 9671 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOTF - ???
  remotes/ScribusOTF at 12278 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOTF at 454 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOTF at 8494 - ???
  remotes/ScribusOTF at 9671 - ???
  remotes/ScribusUIDStyles - ???
  remotes/ScribusUIDStyles at 12284 - ???
  remotes/ScribusUIDStyles at 454 - ???
  remotes/ScribusUIDStyles at 8494 - ???
  remotes/ScribusUIDStyles at 9671 - ???
  remotes/Version14x - current release branch?
  remotes/Version15x -  alias to trunk?
  remotes/scribus - ???
  remotes/start - ???
  remotes/subik - separate repo needed?
  remotes/trunk - the main devel branch

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From malex at scribus.net  Sun May  6 16:26:11 2012
From: malex at scribus.net (Oleksandr Moskalenko)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 12:26:11 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus GUI
In-Reply-To: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4631164-5E90-49B4-9E45-1BF9A54B617A@scribus.net>


On May 5, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Louis Desjardins wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The Scribus GUI has been discussed intensively at LGM in Vienna.
> 
> I think we need a home for GUI discussions and development and I suggest we create gui.scribus.net
> 
> I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it non-coders such as C?dric, Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!), myself and possibly others who are interested in Scribus in general and in the GUI in particular and who are ready to give time and effort to improve the program.
> 
> Also, I suggest that we very soon organise a work session with GUI specialist Peter Sikking who has offered to help us.
> 
> This work session could take place in July at RMLL or sooner and elsewhere if we do a partially remote meeting using Skype or other means. That way, I and Peter Linnell could participate even if the meeting is to take place in Europe.
> 
> Scribus needs care.
> 
> Louis

The user experience initiative seems like a great idea. I wonder what the use case is for the ux.scribus.net. If it is intended to be a place to share information and co-develop plans perhaps that can be accommodated as a separate section in the wiki with ux.scribus.net url pointing to it in a way docs.scribus.net now points to a wiki section. I can set up a new "UX" namespace and create a group that contributors to this project will be members of if really necessary. I am not even sure any access controls are needed as we can revert bad edits in the wiki easily. Please elaborate on the ux.s.n usage if you'd be so kind. Will any other infrastructure be needed beyond a collaborative web space and a source repository? It seems to me that a front page, a wiki "UX" namespace, a git repository, and the scribus-dev mailing list are the necessary and sufficient components.

Cheers,

OM

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From malex at scribus.net  Sun May  6 16:30:24 2012
From: malex at scribus.net (Oleksandr Moskalenko)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 12:30:24 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>


On May 5, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Louis Desjardins wrote:

> ...
> I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it non-coders such as C?dric, Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!), myself and possibly others who are interested in Scribus in general and in the GUI in particular and who are ready to give time and effort to improve the program.
> ...
> Scribus needs care.
> 
> Louis


I wholeheartedly agree on expanding the core team. It already includes people who are rarely touching the actual C++/Qt code and are focused on the infrastructure, release management and documentation. So, why not make the core team more dynamic and flexible? This initiative gets my vote.

Alex



From cbradney at scribus.info  Sun May  6 16:37:22 2012
From: cbradney at scribus.info (Craig Bradney)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 18:37:22 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus GUI
In-Reply-To: <F4631164-5E90-49B4-9E45-1BF9A54B617A@scribus.net>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4631164-5E90-49B4-9E45-1BF9A54B617A@scribus.net>
Message-ID: <4FA6A8C2.9090202@scribus.info>

On 5/6/12 6:26 PM, Oleksandr Moskalenko wrote:
> 
> On May 5, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Louis Desjardins wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Scribus GUI has been discussed intensively at LGM in Vienna.
>>
>> I think we need a home for GUI discussions and development and I suggest we create gui.scribus.net
>>
>> I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it non-coders such as C?dric, Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!), myself and possibly others who are interested in Scribus in general and in the GUI in particular and who are ready to give time and effort to improve the program.
>>
>> Also, I suggest that we very soon organise a work session with GUI specialist Peter Sikking who has offered to help us.
>>
>> This work session could take place in July at RMLL or sooner and elsewhere if we do a partially remote meeting using Skype or other means. That way, I and Peter Linnell could participate even if the meeting is to take place in Europe.
>>
>> Scribus needs care.
>>
>> Louis
> 
> The user experience initiative seems like a great idea. I wonder what the use case is for the ux.scribus.net. If it is intended to be a place to share information and co-develop plans perhaps that can be accommodated as a separate section in the wiki with ux.scribus.net url pointing to it in a way docs.scribus.net now points to a wiki section. I can set up a new "UX" namespace and create a group that contributors to this project will be members of if really necessary. I am not even sure any access controls are needed as we can revert bad edits in the wiki easily. Please elaborate on the ux.s.n usage if you'd be so kind. Will any other infrastructure be needed beyond a collaborative web space and a source repository? It seems to me that a front page, a wiki "UX" namespace, a git repository, and the scribus-dev mailing list are the necessary and sufficient components.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> OM
>
For now it should just be a redirect to http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Category:User_interface or a
new Category. I'd make User Interface a sub category of UX though if the redirect points to UX.

Peter, please create ux.scribus.net and point it to the main webserver and we can redirect local on
the server as necessary.

Thanks
Craig


From cbradney at scribus.info  Sun May  6 17:47:56 2012
From: cbradney at scribus.info (Craig Bradney)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 19:47:56 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
Message-ID: <4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info>

On 5/6/12 6:30 PM, Oleksandr Moskalenko wrote:
> 
> On May 5, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Louis Desjardins wrote:
> 
>> ... I suggest we enlarge the Scribus core team and include into it non-coders such as C?dric,
>> Claudia, Ale (well, Ale is a coder...!), myself and possibly others who are interested in
>> Scribus in general and in the GUI in particular and who are ready to give time and effort to
>> improve the program. ... Scribus needs care.
>> 
>> Louis
> 
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree on expanding the core team. It already includes people who are rarely
> touching the actual C++/Qt code and are focused on the infrastructure, release management and
> documentation. So, why not make the core team more dynamic and flexible? This initiative gets my
> vote.
> 

Right now.. I'm defining this as those you mentioned. Claudia, Louis, Ale, Cedric. Others can come
later.

We spoke about this after Louis sent this email.. he was being lazy and half sleeping at the flat
after a hard night of drinking :) LOL

In any case, we agree this is of great benefit but the request is somewhat less than it may sound.
Eg Louis does *not* want commit rights to SVN - in fear of nuking the world :) Others may or may
not. Those that don't want to commit can easily email us or submit a bug with a patch or idea if
required.

Also, for all team members we have given @scribus.info email addresses.. do you want those? We can
just make them a redirect to any other address if you like.

Craig




From cbradney at scribus.info  Sun May  6 21:24:10 2012
From: cbradney at scribus.info (Craig Bradney)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 23:24:10 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] CMake Build Options
Message-ID: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info>

Hi

I have added http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/CMake_Build_Options to start to document the options we
have created/enabled over time for when you want to build Scribus from source. This might be useful
for those regularly building Scribus.

thanks
Craig


From rcook at pcug.org.au  Mon May  7 05:40:50 2012
From: rcook at pcug.org.au (Owen)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:40:50 +1000
Subject: [scribus-dev] [scribus] CMake Build Options
In-Reply-To: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info>
References: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info>
Message-ID: <9ad5d781f333bf2b1e973de47972082d.squirrel@members.tip.net.au>


> Hi
>
> I have added http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/CMake_Build_Options to
> start to document the options we
> have created/enabled over time for when you want to build Scribus from
> source. This might be useful
> for those regularly building Scribus.



Thanks for that, I did a rebuild of 1.4.2.svn with just "en_US.UTF-8",
it knocked 21 Mbytes off.(about 20%)

Not that I suspect it matters all that much with terabyte hard drives.


-- 
Owen



From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Mon May  7 09:56:40 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 11:56:40 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] CMake Build Options
In-Reply-To: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info>
References: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info>
Message-ID: <4FA79C58.3090002@xox.ch>

hi craig,
> I have added http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/CMake_Build_Options to start to document the options we
> have created/enabled over time for when you want to build Scribus from source. This might be useful
> for those regularly building Scribus.
>

thanks!

very useful, indeed!

one correction: WANT_GUI_LANG is not a bool but a comma separted list of 
two letters language codes (iirc).

i would also  switch the wips (and maybe write what wip is :-) and the 
confirmed working, so that people first see what they can use (if i 
understood correctly what the first section is...) and then what they 
can expect in the future or what does not work anymore.

i can do the changes if you agree with them.

ciao
a.l.e


From cbradney at scribus.info  Mon May  7 10:18:43 2012
From: cbradney at scribus.info (Craig Bradney)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:18:43 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] CMake Build Options
In-Reply-To: <4FA79C58.3090002@xox.ch>
References: <4FA6EBFA.2070605@scribus.info> <4FA79C58.3090002@xox.ch>
Message-ID: <46BAB9DB-76ED-4FB9-9039-A4FF641C2A11@scribus.info>

Go ahead :)

Wip : work in progress 



On 07/05/2012, at 11:56, "a.l.e" <ale.comp_06 at xox.ch> wrote:

> hi craig,
>> I have added http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/CMake_Build_Options to start to document the options we
>> have created/enabled over time for when you want to build Scribus from source. This might be useful
>> for those regularly building Scribus.
>> 
> 
> thanks!
> 
> very useful, indeed!
> 
> one correction: WANT_GUI_LANG is not a bool but a comma separted list of two letters language codes (iirc).
> 
> i would also  switch the wips (and maybe write what wip is :-) and the confirmed working, so that people first see what they can use (if i understood correctly what the first section is...) and then what they can expect in the future or what does not work anymore.
> 
> i can do the changes if you agree with them.
> 
> ciao
> a.l.e
> 
> _______________________________________________
> scribus-dev mailing list
> scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
> http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev


From ve4jhj+scribus at gmail.com  Mon May  7 18:29:07 2012
From: ve4jhj+scribus at gmail.com (Gord Caswell)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 13:29:07 -0500
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus Portable 1.4.1 (desktop publishing) Released
	by PortableApps.com
Message-ID: <CABXPYgXE4Wtra1J8gZyWOM-_EZyaEWQGBS9S0T4H=OgTzoAzGw@mail.gmail.com>

PortableApps.com and the Scribus Team are proud to announce the
release of Scribus Portable 1.4.1:
http://portableapps.com/news/2012-05-07--scribus-portable-1.4.1-released


Gord Caswell
PortableApps.com developer


From alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com  Tue May  8 17:03:38 2012
From: alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com (Alexandre Prokoudine)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:03:38 +0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] social presence of the project
Message-ID: <CAFjkzc1PA9e3opzp414jmXVo0k53b4-g3F01pr=_24-uX9_JQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello team,

I'm ceasing maintenance of both the Twitter account (@scribus) and the
Google+ page of the project.

The Twitter account has mere 360 followers, the G+ page, however, has
1395 followers.

Peter Linnell has the password for the Twitter account, and other team
members who are willing to take over are welcome to mail me privately
to ask for it.

Google+ pages don't require passwords, but an owner of a page can
invite managers for co-maintenance. The ownership has just been
transferred to Alessandro Rimoldi who was a co-admin.

If you have particular questions about best practices and suchlike,
please contact me directly, i.e. offlist.

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org


From cbradney at zip.com.au  Tue May  8 18:20:46 2012
From: cbradney at zip.com.au (Craig Bradney)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:20:46 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] social presence of the project
In-Reply-To: <CAFjkzc1PA9e3opzp414jmXVo0k53b4-g3F01pr=_24-uX9_JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFjkzc1PA9e3opzp414jmXVo0k53b4-g3F01pr=_24-uX9_JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FA963FE.8080604@zip.com.au>

Hi Alex

> I'm ceasing maintenance of both the Twitter account (@scribus) and the
> Google+ page of the project.

Ok, thanks for doing it so far - I was not even aware of those but then again I don't follow twitter
and only use google for GSoC.

Probably best to hand it over to Ale if he accepts. He is more into that stuff.

Craig


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Tue May  8 18:37:02 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:37:02 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] social presence of the project
In-Reply-To: <4FA963FE.8080604@zip.com.au>
References: <CAFjkzc1PA9e3opzp414jmXVo0k53b4-g3F01pr=_24-uX9_JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA963FE.8080604@zip.com.au>
Message-ID: <20120508203702.1a3a1873@digiteis>

hi

> > I'm ceasing maintenance of both the Twitter account (@scribus) and
> > the Google+ page of the project.
> 
> Ok, thanks for doing it so far - I was not even aware of those but
> then again I don't follow twitter and only use google for GSoC.
> 
> Probably best to hand it over to Ale if he accepts. He is more into
> that stuff.

ok, for making me admin for twitter, too.

i will then try to find a solution and get both of them to be well
managed.


have fun
a.l.e


From cbradney at scribus.info  Tue May  8 18:42:44 2012
From: cbradney at scribus.info (Craig Bradney)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:42:44 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] social presence of the project
In-Reply-To: <20120508203702.1a3a1873@digiteis>
References: <CAFjkzc1PA9e3opzp414jmXVo0k53b4-g3F01pr=_24-uX9_JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA963FE.8080604@zip.com.au> <20120508203702.1a3a1873@digiteis>
Message-ID: <4FA96924.8050606@scribus.info>

On 5/8/12 8:37 PM, a.l.e wrote:
> hi
> 
>>> I'm ceasing maintenance of both the Twitter account (@scribus) and
>>> the Google+ page of the project.
>>
>> Ok, thanks for doing it so far - I was not even aware of those but
>> then again I don't follow twitter and only use google for GSoC.
>>
>> Probably best to hand it over to Ale if he accepts. He is more into
>> that stuff.
> 
> ok, for making me admin for twitter, too.
> 
> i will then try to find a solution and get both of them to be well
> managed.

You don't have to say yes, but you are probably more into it than the rest of the team.

If you don't want to then fine by me - please get the admin details and we can put them on hold. :)
I don't think twitter and google+ need to play a role in everyone's life - just more information
overload.

Thanks
Craig


From jluc at no-log.org  Sun May 13 16:02:40 2012
From: jluc at no-log.org (JLuc)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 18:02:40 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
	<4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info>
Message-ID: <joolv2$j42$1@dough.gmane.org>

About UI, UX and team work, I discover this blog and proposed UI works by student

http://blog.mmiworks.net/2012/05/teaching-interaction-12.html

JL



From gpittman at iglou.com  Wed May 16 15:49:09 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:49:09 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Documentation
Message-ID: <4FB3CC75.3020802@iglou.com>

I would like to volunteer for or suggest that I acquire commit rights so 
that there can be more timely incorporation of new docs in the online 
manual, as well as correction of problems.

I've currently 3 docs submissions, one since August, 2011, the most 
recent yesterday. None of these is any earth-shaking submission, the 
last is a fix for the substitution of Italian-language dialog images in 
the English version.

I would emphasize that I need some education about committing (so I 
don't make the mistake that was made with the Italian dialogs), and also 
that I have no interest in any other svn changes, even though I continue 
to fiddle with some other aspects on my own.

Greg


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Fri May 18 10:43:26 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:43:26 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <joolv2$j42$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
	<4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info> <joolv2$j42$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20120518124326.11fcfabc@digiteis>

hi

> About UI, UX and team work, I discover this blog and proposed UI
> works by student
> 
> http://blog.mmiworks.net/2012/05/teaching-interaction-12.html

at the recent LGM we got an offer from peter sikking to help us improve
the ways usability and user interface ideas flow into the scribus
project.

the idea is to have a meeting between
- the people having most contributed to the scribus
  UI in the last few years
- the scribus main developers
- and peter sikking
and discuss about workflows and structures that could improve the UI
side of the scribus development.


we have been thinking of a good place and time to get together and we
would like to propose a meeting during the weekend before the RMLL
(rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre).

the RMLL will take place in geneva from the 9th to the 12th of july.
ale, cedric and louis will be there. claudia and jean live close to
geneva. for andreas, franz, silvia and peter sikking, geneva should not
be too difficult to reach. probably not the best place for peter
linnel, greg, (m)alex, cezary and vladimir...

the meeting would take place on saturday the 7th of july and sunday 8th
of july in geneva or in a place not too far away from geneva (in the
nearby france or switzerland).

a backup place and time would be the froscon in bonn on the 25th and
26th of august.
we also got an offer to bring some graphics there... :-)



i'd like to ask you to answer to this thread with your comments and
questions on this initiative and to fill this doodle

http://www.doodle.com/t2kz57xfs5mm3bdc

to tell us if you can be in geneva (imo the best option) or bonn this
summer.

have a nice weekend!
a.l.e


From gpittman at iglou.com  Fri May 18 13:19:21 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:19:21 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <20120518124326.11fcfabc@digiteis>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
	<4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info> <joolv2$j42$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20120518124326.11fcfabc@digiteis>
Message-ID: <4FB64C59.5050706@iglou.com>

On 05/18/2012 06:43 AM, a.l.e wrote:
> hi
>
>> About UI, UX and team work, I discover this blog and proposed UI
>> works by student
>>
>> http://blog.mmiworks.net/2012/05/teaching-interaction-12.html
>
> at the recent LGM we got an offer from peter sikking to help us improve
> the ways usability and user interface ideas flow into the scribus
> project.
>
> the idea is to have a meeting between
> - the people having most contributed to the scribus
>    UI in the last few years
> - the scribus main developers
> - and peter sikking
> and discuss about workflows and structures that could improve the UI
> side of the scribus development.
>
>
> we have been thinking of a good place and time to get together and we
> would like to propose a meeting during the weekend before the RMLL
> (rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre).
>
> the RMLL will take place in geneva from the 9th to the 12th of july.
> ale, cedric and louis will be there. claudia and jean live close to
> geneva. for andreas, franz, silvia and peter sikking, geneva should not
> be too difficult to reach. probably not the best place for peter
> linnel, greg, (m)alex, cezary and vladimir...
>
> the meeting would take place on saturday the 7th of july and sunday 8th
> of july in geneva or in a place not too far away from geneva (in the
> nearby france or switzerland).
>
> a backup place and time would be the froscon in bonn on the 25th and
> 26th of august.
> we also got an offer to bring some graphics there... :-)
>
>
>
> i'd like to ask you to answer to this thread with your comments and
> questions on this initiative and to fill this doodle
>
> http://www.doodle.com/t2kz57xfs5mm3bdc
>
> to tell us if you can be in geneva (imo the best option) or bonn this
> summer.
>

I can't make it, but would suggest that things begin with some person(s) 
making some notes about the discussions so those of us not there know 
what's going on.

Greg



From vladimir.firefly.savic at gmail.com  Sat May 19 12:25:02 2012
From: vladimir.firefly.savic at gmail.com (Vladimir Savic)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:25:02 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Scribus development
In-Reply-To: <20120518124326.11fcfabc@digiteis>
References: <CAM9PYkYNUGrHwEk=oWch_uMVGPRK1CfB56h+r1G3PF9YZXvmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9116A4B1-6B93-475A-88BE-127CE90605B5@scribus.net>
	<4FA6B94C.5040406@scribus.info> <joolv2$j42$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20120518124326.11fcfabc@digiteis>
Message-ID: <4FB7911E.4000600@gmail.com>

On 05/18/2012 12:43 PM, a.l.e wrote:

> the RMLL will take place in geneva from the 9th to the 12th of july.
> ale, cedric and louis will be there. claudia and jean live close to
> geneva. for andreas, franz, silvia and peter sikking, geneva should not
> be too difficult to reach. probably not the best place for peter
> linnel, greg, (m)alex, cezary and vladimir...

Unfortunately, I can't be there, as you have already figured out. If you 
find something I could do from home - I'll gladly help.

> have a nice weekend!
> a.l.e

I am! Thank you. ;)
Vlada


From mamhoff at googlemail.com  Fri May 25 20:43:01 2012
From: mamhoff at googlemail.com (Martin Meyerhoff)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 22:43:01 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
Message-ID: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Scribus team,

first: Thank you for making this wonderful piece of software!

I am looking for a possibility of running Scribus headless and feeding it
with data. The idea is: A workflow with no human intervention...

There was some mentions of existing patches for headless Scribus here:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.scribus.devel/1295

I'd love to start playing around with that and see how far I get. However,
I can't seem to find the patches...

Best,

Martin
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From cedric.gemy at gmail.com  Sat May 26 08:44:39 2012
From: cedric.gemy at gmail.com (cedric.gemy at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:44:39 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
In-Reply-To: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC097F7.40105@gmail.com>

lo martin

the easiest way i actually know is playing with python extensions. You
can grab your sources from any database type or file type (xml, csv or
whatever) anf then produce a basic layout from that and produce PDF. But
the scripts needs to be launched from scribus even if the rest is automated

The best we could have would be a real source management, we are talking
about it for a while.

Do you have any knowledge in python or C++ ?

Cedric

> Dear Scribus team,
>
> first: Thank you for making this wonderful piece of software!
>
> I am looking for a possibility of running Scribus headless and feeding
> it with data. The idea is: A workflow with no human intervention...
>
> There was some mentions of existing patches for headless Scribus here:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.scribus.devel/1295
>
> I'd love to start playing around with that and see how far I get.
> However, I can't seem to find the patches...
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> scribus-dev mailing list
> scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
> http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev

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From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Sun May 27 16:54:31 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (ale rimoldi)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 18:54:31 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
Message-ID: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>

hi

in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
works and we found it too complicated too use.

our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants to be
able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
- on the current layer
- on all non locked layers

enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.

what do you think about it?

it's ok if i do a new patch?

ciao
a.l.e


From gpittman at iglou.com  Sun May 27 19:12:58 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 15:12:58 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
Message-ID: <4FC27CBA.3040806@iglou.com>

On 05/27/2012 12:54 PM, ale rimoldi wrote:
> hi
>
> in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
> works and we found it too complicated too use.
>
> our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants to be
> able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
> - on the current layer
> - on all non locked layers
>
> enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
> to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.
>
> what do you think about it?
>
> it's ok if i do a new patch?
>
I find that if I use the Outline dialog, it's quite easy to select items 
on multiple layers. You can't Group them, but interestingly, you can 
copy a multiple selection (Paste is to a single layer), and you can 
select right in the Outline dialog. So it seems that selecting items 
across layers (and even different layers on different pages) is already 
enabled.

One thing the Outline dialog doesn't tell you is which layer items are 
on. Perhaps adding a feature to the Outline dialog would help, and maybe 
address the original complaint.

Greg


From cedric.gemy at gmail.com  Sun May 27 19:49:18 2012
From: cedric.gemy at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cedric_G=E9my?=)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:49:18 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
Message-ID: <CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>

Lo


in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
> works and we found it too complicated too use.
>
> our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants to be
> able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
> - on the current layer
> - on all non locked layers
>
> enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
> to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.
>
>
IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to spread
"linked" objects among and that the need to move them together is here.
Some examples :

- you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link over it
(on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to move the link
with it

- you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to manage
sources and display, or manage same ressources for several language
document where you would make one layer / lang. You would like to move them
together too

in fact, we often use layer to "split" the content and organise. But all
the contents can be related in the layout so that the need to modify them
at once is not so rare.


> what do you think about it?
>
>
yes, i agree. I guess it might be some selector tool option ?!



> it's ok if i do a new patch?
>

tell me how i can help.

CU
-- 
C?dric G?my
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Formationlibre.org
FlossManualsFrancophone
Association Francophone des Graphistes Libres
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From cedric.gemy at gmail.com  Sun May 27 19:49:18 2012
From: cedric.gemy at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cedric_G=E9my?=)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:49:18 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
Message-ID: <CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>

Lo


in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
> works and we found it too complicated too use.
>
> our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants to be
> able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
> - on the current layer
> - on all non locked layers
>
> enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
> to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.
>
>
IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to spread
"linked" objects among and that the need to move them together is here.
Some examples :

- you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link over it
(on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to move the link
with it

- you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to manage
sources and display, or manage same ressources for several language
document where you would make one layer / lang. You would like to move them
together too

in fact, we often use layer to "split" the content and organise. But all
the contents can be related in the layout so that the need to modify them
at once is not so rare.


> what do you think about it?
>
>
yes, i agree. I guess it might be some selector tool option ?!



> it's ok if i do a new patch?
>

tell me how i can help.

CU
-- 
C?dric G?my
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Formationlibre.org
FlossManualsFrancophone
Association Francophone des Graphistes Libres
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From gpittman at iglou.com  Sun May 27 20:18:38 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 16:18:38 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>

On 05/27/2012 03:49 PM, Cedric G?my wrote:
> Lo
>
>
>     in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
>     works and we found it too complicated too use.
>
>     our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants
>     to be
>     able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
>     - on the current layer
>     - on all non locked layers
>
>     enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
>     to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.
>
>
> IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to spread 
> "linked" objects among and that the need to move them together is 
> here. Some examples :
>
> - you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link over 
> it (on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to move 
> the link with it
>
> - you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to 
> manage sources and display, or manage same ressources for several 
> language document where you would make one layer / lang. You would 
> like to move them together too
>
With the outline dialog you can do this...

Greg
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From mamhoff at googlemail.com  Sun May 27 21:29:31 2012
From: mamhoff at googlemail.com (Martin Meyerhoff)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 23:29:31 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
In-Reply-To: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzLS+PO++tj3RWQid7RDu=Lh5SAOdBQzLv377vXjn94ZU0FfA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Cedric,

the easiest way i actually know is playing with python extensions. You
> can grab your sources from any database type or file type (xml, csv or
> whatever) anf then produce a basic layout from that and produce PDF. But
> the scripts needs to be launched from scribus even if the rest is automated
>
> The best we could have would be a real source management, we are talking
> about it for a while.
>
> Do you have any knowledge in python or C++ ?
>
>
I do know some Python and have an idea of what C++ is.

What you're suggesting is to have a python script run from within Scribus,
which for the usecase I have in mind is difficult because it requires quite
a lot of user interaction (start Scribus, open file etc.).

Is there no way to start a Scribus script from the command line? That
shouldn't be too hard, should it? I see it's tough to separate Qt and the
program logic, but that's not really necessary if all Scribus does is not
open a window and run a script. I would imagine something along the lines
of:

$ scribus --runscript "scripty.py"

All further arguments should go into the *argv vector of the script.

The idea, thus, would *not* be to make it fast. The idea is to make it work
without human intervention, so one could do the kind of stuff XML-FO does
with a WYSIWYG interface.


Love
Martin


> Cedric
>
> > Dear Scribus team,
> >
> > first: Thank you for making this wonderful piece of software!
> >
> > I am looking for a possibility of running Scribus headless and feeding
> > it with data. The idea is: A workflow with no human intervention...
> >
> > There was some mentions of existing patches for headless Scribus here:
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.scribus.devel/1295
> >
> > I'd love to start playing around with that and see how far I get.
> > However, I can't seem to find the patches...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > scribus-dev mailing list
> > scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
> > http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev
>
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> http://lists.scribus.net/pipermail/scribus-dev/attachments/20120526/c8ca671e/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> scribus-dev mailing list
> scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
> http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev
>
>
> End of scribus-dev Digest, Vol 49, Issue 13
> *******************************************
>
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From jz at janzeleny.cz  Mon May 28 17:43:46 2012
From: jz at janzeleny.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Ing=2E_Jan_Zelen=FD=22?=)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 19:43:46 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
In-Reply-To: <CAPzLS+PO++tj3RWQid7RDu=Lh5SAOdBQzLv377vXjn94ZU0FfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzLS+PO++tj3RWQid7RDu=Lh5SAOdBQzLv377vXjn94ZU0FfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC3B952.7010806@janzeleny.cz>

Dne 27.5.2012 23:29, Martin Meyerhoff napsal(a):
> Hi Cedric,
> 
>     the easiest way i actually know is playing with python extensions. You
>     can grab your sources from any database type or file type (xml, csv or
>     whatever) anf then produce a basic layout from that and produce PDF. But
>     the scripts needs to be launched from scribus even if the rest is
>     automated
> 
>     The best we could have would be a real source management, we are talking
>     about it for a while.
> 
>     Do you have any knowledge in python or C++ ?
> 
> 
> I do know some Python and have an idea of what C++ is.
> 
> What you're suggesting is to have a python script run from within
> Scribus, which for the usecase I have in mind is difficult because it
> requires quite a lot of user interaction (start Scribus, open file etc.).
> 
> Is there no way to start a Scribus script from the command line? That
> shouldn't be too hard, should it? I see it's tough to separate Qt and
> the program logic, but that's not really necessary if all Scribus does
> is not open a window and run a script. I would imagine something along
> the lines of:
> 
> $ scribus --runscript "scripty.py"
> 
> All further arguments should go into the *argv vector of the script.
> 
> The idea, thus, would *not* be to make it fast. The idea is to make it
> work without human intervention, so one could do the kind of stuff
> XML-FO does with a WYSIWYG interface.

Hi Martin,
I have modified scribus in a similar way you describe and I can tell you
it's not easy, there are still quite some difficulties with message
boxes. In my case I manage to prepare documents I want to process in a
way that ensures no message boxes will be emitted.

If you are interested, I can send you the patch, but it's not exactly
"clean code", it's more of an ugly hack. Currently I'm trying to do some
modifications in scribus core which will lead to entirely headless
scribus but it will take some time to finish this, it's quite complicated.

Thanks
Jan

> 
> 
> Love
> Martin
>  
> 
>     Cedric
> 
>     > Dear Scribus team,
>     >
>     > first: Thank you for making this wonderful piece of software!
>     >
>     > I am looking for a possibility of running Scribus headless and feeding
>     > it with data. The idea is: A workflow with no human intervention...
>     >
>     > There was some mentions of existing patches for headless Scribus here:
>     > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.scribus.devel/1295
>     >
>     > I'd love to start playing around with that and see how far I get.
>     > However, I can't seem to find the patches...
>     >
>     > Best,
>     >
>     > Martin
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > scribus-dev mailing list
>     > scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net <mailto:scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net>
>     > http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev
> 
>     -------------- next part --------------
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> 
>     ------------------------------
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     scribus-dev mailing list
>     scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net <mailto:scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net>
>     http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev
> 
> 
>     End of scribus-dev Digest, Vol 49, Issue 13
>     *******************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
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From cedric.gemy at gmail.com  Mon May 28 21:04:44 2012
From: cedric.gemy at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cedric_G=E9my?=)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 23:04:44 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <CAJS10wpEVjJ6gqaS+WwgxeqK4QVgqn-GrTbd9YP2=xJcnEpZNw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, but when you have 20 or 30 objects in a page, you just don't want to
use the outline (you don't have object preview there) if you can just
click. Outline is cool, even if it could be improved, but i guess it cannot
take the place of a user-friendly feature, especially if it is not so hard
to implement.

In fact, we should just wonder :
- how many user select by clicking
- how many select in the outline dialog

I guess the first. May be we you define the exact functional area of the
outline. may be a UI discussion on this ?

2012/5/27 Gregory Pittman <gpittman at iglou.com>

>  On 05/27/2012 03:49 PM, Cedric G?my wrote:
>
> Lo
>
>
>  in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple layers
>> works and we found it too complicated too use.
>>
>> our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user wants to be
>> able to select items across the layers and then, allow the selections:
>> - on the current layer
>> - on all non locked layers
>>
>> enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too complicated
>> to use and we think that a general switch should be enough.
>>
>>
> IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to spread
> "linked" objects among and that the need to move them together is here.
> Some examples :
>
> - you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link over it
> (on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to move the link
> with it
>
> - you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to manage
> sources and display, or manage same ressources for several language
> document where you would make one layer / lang. You would like to move them
> together too
>
>   With the outline dialog you can do this...
>
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> scribus-dev mailing list
> scribus-dev at lists.scribus.net
> http://lists.scribus.net/mailman/listinfo/scribus-dev
>
>


-- 
C?dric G?my
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Formationlibre.org
FlossManualsFrancophone
Association Francophone des Graphistes Libres
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From gpittman at iglou.com  Tue May 29 00:23:14 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 20:23:14 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <CAJS10wpEVjJ6gqaS+WwgxeqK4QVgqn-GrTbd9YP2=xJcnEpZNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
	<CAJS10wpEVjJ6gqaS+WwgxeqK4QVgqn-GrTbd9YP2=xJcnEpZNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC416F2.3080002@iglou.com>

On 05/28/2012 05:04 PM, Cedric G?my wrote:
> Yes, but when you have 20 or 30 objects in a page, you just don't want 
> to use the outline (you don't have object preview there) if you can 
> just click. Outline is cool, even if it could be improved, but i guess 
> it cannot take the place of a user-friendly feature, especially if it 
> is not so hard to implement.
>
> In fact, we should just wonder :
> - how many user select by clicking
> - how many select in the outline dialog
>
Not sure I understand. I use Outline with the page visible, so that I 
see what is selected as I go -- hold down Ctrl to select/deselect as you 
go (by 'just clicking').
One potential hassle with a large number of objects is that you may not 
know the name of a frame -- hmm, is that Text 35 or Text 3? -- but you 
do know what is on a given page. I also see as I play around that you 
can use the Outline dialog to change the names of the frames, perhaps 
worth something in that regard.

I'm not sure how many people are needing to select objects on different 
layers to move them together...this by itself may not be too common.
I guess the trick to do it your way is to retain a selection even though 
you switch layers, but if you do that, how do you unselect an item? 
Double-click? I wonder if this would begin to create new problems.

Greg


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Tue May 29 15:56:04 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:56:04 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <CAJS10wpEVjJ6gqaS+WwgxeqK4QVgqn-GrTbd9YP2=xJcnEpZNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
	<CAJS10wpEVjJ6gqaS+WwgxeqK4QVgqn-GrTbd9YP2=xJcnEpZNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC4F194.6060108@xox.ch>

hi guys,

selecting on all layers is already implemented in 1.5svn... it's just 
that in my eyes (and in other people's eyes, too) the way it's 
implemented is not really practical: just a bit overcomplicated and 
could profit from a simpler implementation.

more details when i'm back home...

ciao
a.l.e

> Yes, but when you have 20 or 30 objects in a page, you just don't want 
> to use the outline (you don't have object preview there) if you can 
> just click. Outline is cool, even if it could be improved, but i guess 
> it cannot take the place of a user-friendly feature, especially if it 
> is not so hard to implement.
>
> In fact, we should just wonder :
> - how many user select by clicking
> - how many select in the outline dialog
>
> I guess the first. May be we you define the exact functional area of 
> the outline. may be a UI discussion on this ?

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From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Tue May 29 16:02:02 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (a.l.e)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:02:02 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
In-Reply-To: <4FC3B952.7010806@janzeleny.cz>
References: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzLS+PO++tj3RWQid7RDu=Lh5SAOdBQzLv377vXjn94ZU0FfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC3B952.7010806@janzeleny.cz>
Message-ID: <4FC4F2FA.80509@xox.ch>

hi jan,

> Currently I'm trying to do some modifications in scribus core which 
> will lead to entirely headless scribus but it will

would you be happy to do the modifications on a branch which is publicly 
accessible?

i can try to get a git branch for it, if you want.

ciao
a.l.e


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Tue May 29 17:50:04 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (ale rimoldi)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:50:04 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <20120529195004.2097bd5c@eiseiseis>

hi

> >     in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple
> > layers works and we found it too complicated too use.
> >
> >     our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user
> > wants to be
> >     able to select items across the layers and then, allow the
> > selections:
> >     - on the current layer
> >     - on all non locked layers
> >
> >     enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too
> > complicated to use and we think that a general switch should be
> > enough.
> >
> >
> > IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to
> > spread "linked" objects among and that the need to move them
> > together is here. Some examples :
> >
> > - you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link
> > over it (on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to
> > move the link with it
> >
> > - you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to 
> > manage sources and display, or manage same ressources for several 
> > language document where you would make one layer / lang. You would 
> > like to move them together too
> >
> With the outline dialog you can do this...

i guess that there is a misunderstanding here:

- in trunk it is currently possible to choose which layers are always
  "accessible"

- nobody wants to remove any feature from the outline dialog

- on the one side, i want to know if somebody has a use for the very
  granular solution which has been recently added (there is a new
  "select object on layer" checkbox in the layers dialog)

- on the other side, i want to know from people actually working with
  scribus would prefere just enable the   feature in the preferences
  and then have all non locked layers accessible.


the change i'm proposing, seems to be simpler to use and is probably
simpler to code (less code!)

tsch?
a.l.e


From gpittman at iglou.com  Tue May 29 18:31:10 2012
From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:31:10 -0400
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <20120529195004.2097bd5c@eiseiseis>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com> <20120529195004.2097bd5c@eiseiseis>
Message-ID: <4FC515EE.9040808@iglou.com>

On 05/29/2012 01:50 PM, ale rimoldi wrote:
> hi
>
>>>      in vienna we have discussed the way the selection on multiple
>>> layers works and we found it too complicated too use.
>>>
>>>      our proposal is to just add a preference to say if the user
>>> wants to be
>>>      able to select items across the layers and then, allow the
>>> selections:
>>>      - on the current layer
>>>      - on all non locked layers
>>>
>>>      enabling the selection for each layer seems to be too
>>> complicated to use and we think that a general switch should be
>>> enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> IMO not that's too complicated, just that you sometimes need to
>>> spread "linked" objects among and that the need to move them
>>> together is here. Some examples :
>>>
>>> - you have a link adress http of email and had created a PDF link
>>> over it (on a new layer). If you move the text frame, you'd like to
>>> move the link with it
>>>
>>> - you have pictures on a  layer and text on another (practical to
>>> manage sources and display, or manage same ressources for several
>>> language document where you would make one layer / lang. You would
>>> like to move them together too
>>>
>> With the outline dialog you can do this...
>
> i guess that there is a misunderstanding here:
>
> - in trunk it is currently possible to choose which layers are always
>    "accessible"
>
> - nobody wants to remove any feature from the outline dialog
>
??
> - on the one side, i want to know if somebody has a use for the very
>    granular solution which has been recently added (there is a new
>    "select object on layer" checkbox in the layers dialog)
>
> - on the other side, i want to know from people actually working with
>    scribus would prefere just enable the   feature in the preferences
>    and then have all non locked layers accessible.

but would someone always want this? If so, what's the point of having 
layers? It seems they just become a second kind of level.
Maybe in addition to the individual layer selection, there might be a 
multilayer selection as a choice.

The only point I wanted to make was that the ability to select across 
layers exists in the Outline dialog. Perhaps something to consider might 
be allowing for an across-layer Group to exist.

Some time ago we had a to and fro on the list about "how many layers 
seem sensible" in a document. It seems that some feel that 20, 30 layers 
are just a very normal thing.

Greg


From jz at janzeleny.cz  Tue May 29 18:59:18 2012
From: jz at janzeleny.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Zelen=FD?=)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:59:18 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] Automated/Headless Publishing
In-Reply-To: <4FC4F2FA.80509@xox.ch>
References: <CAPzLS+N=hDeurCQrxsCACB89jhpo5HoCvr4iMFG2bqig+LfCOg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPzLS+PO++tj3RWQid7RDu=Lh5SAOdBQzLv377vXjn94ZU0FfA@mail.gmail.com>	<4FC3B952.7010806@janzeleny.cz>
	<4FC4F2FA.80509@xox.ch>
Message-ID: <4FC51C86.9030503@janzeleny.cz>

Hi ale,
sure thing but first I need to get things at least semi stable. I
noticed that you were working on the same thing last year. Do you have
something I can start from at least so I can get an idea if my approach
is ok?

You also mentioned git branch. Does that mean that scribus is also
developed in git somewhere? I would certainly prefer a git repo over
git-svn :)

Thanks
Jan

Dne 29.5.2012 18:02, a.l.e napsal(a):
> hi jan,
> 
>> Currently I'm trying to do some modifications in scribus core which
>> will lead to entirely headless scribus but it will
> 
> would you be happy to do the modifications on a branch which is publicly
> accessible?
> 
> i can try to get a git branch for it, if you want.
> 
> ciao
> a.l.e


From ale.comp_06 at xox.ch  Tue May 29 20:45:44 2012
From: ale.comp_06 at xox.ch (ale rimoldi)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:45:44 +0200
Subject: [scribus-dev] [Scribus 0010673]: Select on multiple layer
In-Reply-To: <4FC515EE.9040808@iglou.com>
References: <20120527185431.26be8c15@eiseiseis>
	<CAJS10wrALbdMfjSJsd6hSNjbh-46yX_FsAHU0G+5kRvvth6hGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC28C1E.7010306@iglou.com> <20120529195004.2097bd5c@eiseiseis>
	<4FC515EE.9040808@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <20120529224544.4ed36be9@eiseiseis>

hi greg

> but would someone always want this?

no, that's why i talked about a checkbox in the preferences/document
settings to enable this.

just one question: have you tried it in 1.5?

i'm trying to talk about how it's implemented in 1.5 and how it could
be done better...

if you have not tried it or have no use for at all, well, i think that
it's not really a problem: you won't use that feature!

so: it's not obligatory! (even if there are people wanting to have it
enabled by default; and this is the way inkscape does it... so it's not
something that strange :-)

ciao
a.l.e


