[scribus] alignment of text frames after inserting a new page

[Louis Desjardins]

2010/3/6 Peter Nermander <peter at nermander.se>

> > Yes and no. Depends on how the book is structured. For instance, as is
> often
> > the case, chapters start on a right page.
>
> I think it is very inappropriate to make such an assumption. I just
> looked through a few books here and many of them start new chapters on
> a left page.
>

   - What’s inappropriate? The word "often" was used on purpose and does not
   close the door on other possibilities.
   - Again, it “depends on how the book is structured”, as I said.
   - Adding 2 pages in a facing pages layout wil not destroy the left-right
   sequence. Adding one page will. Period.
   - Correcting all following pages can be lenghty and complicated, if not
   clumsy, but...
   - ... of course, if we have a script that does the job, then ok. But
   again...
   - ... adding 2 pages and deleting the extra one at the end of the
   chapter/section/book is a proven method... But...
   - ... sometimes the layout won’t allow easy or automated changes...

>      - Additional note: and the total pagination of the book must always
> be
> >      considered when you add or remove pages. A book of 301 pages
> > doesn?t exist
> >      in a printer?s reality.
>
> No problem at all, in almost all books I have seen there is a padding
> with empty pages at the end if the number of pages does not match what
> is needed in the imposition. I don't think any author writes a book
> trying to target a multiple of 16 or 32 pages (which as far as I know
> are the most common impositions used for books).
>

   - I believe the readers of this post will want to know beyond the far
   that you know. I have wonder why you use such an offending tone and why you
   distort the explanations I give here. I think it has nothing to do in this
   mailing list. At least, it takes away the fun of participating in such a
   discussion.
   - This discussion is about DTP and I look at it from the DTP point of
   view. If it was only the author’s point of view, why would the initiator of
   this thread bother with the layout and the margins of the book? I have
   understood he tries to layout the book — content and container, or text and
   layout if you prefer — all by himself.
   - I don’t think either that an author writes a book trying to target a
   multiple of 16 or 32 pages. But this humoristic tentative of yours fails to
   the reality check anyway.
   - We have to keep in mind that the printing industry puts in play
   industrial processes to achieve, at various levels, custom tailored pieces.
   So, even if one thinks that there are processes or methods used more often
   than others, there is no real interest in talking in general terms to solve
   a specific situation. If we were to be stuck with 16 or 32 pages
   impositions, that wouldnt’t leave room for much customisation, something the
   printing industry does every day. A 300 page book *for instance* (it is only
   an example, there are other possibilities) can be made into a variety of
   combination of impositions, depending on the format of the book, the
   equipment used, the paper used (weight, thickness, size of the sheet, grain
   direction), the number of copies needed, how the book will be binded, only
   to name the main parameters. 300 divides quite badly by 16 or 32 and
   nonetheless I can assure you the industry can print and bind a 300 page
   book.


>
> > Just as a parenthesis in this discussion, allow me to doubt that a word
> > processor would do a better job in this particular case. End of
> parenthesis!
>
> Well, at least MS Word handles inside and outside margins correctly
> when you chose pacing pages. Also if I put a text frame in the margin
> I can set the position according to "book layout" and it will stay for
> example in the outer margin no matter if it is a left page or a right
> page. I just tried it to be sure.
>

Good for you. And I have to wonder just how this will come out when imposed
and printed. But anyhow, for the benefit of the readers, we have some nice
explanations of the differences between a WP and a DTP app. on the Scribus
web site. I won’t go into this in this thread. I believe the info can be
easily found on the Scribus website.

Louis

>
> > As for TeX, even if it is true (and I cannot be sure as I don?t know
> enough
> > TeX), the idea of finding a way of solving the situation *within Scribus?
> > capacities* is important too. If someone has started to layout a book of
> 300
> > pages in Scribus and finds himself in front of such an issue, we can help
> by
> > finding Scribus ways of solving the issue.
>
> Well, the logic for aligning the main text frame is easy, as far as I
> see it: positioning relative margins (not the page edge). In this case
> if would be "0 from left margin". In MS Word you can chose absolute
> (which has the page edges as reference) and relative (where it can be
> relative margin or column for horisontal and relative margin or
> paragraph för vertical).
>
> As for a margin note, we also need conditional formatting and that is
> one step further. Maybe for a facing layout be able to set the
> reference relative "inside margin" or "outside margin".
>
> Of course if we can have formulas in the position fields it can be
> solved that way, but I think most users will prefer radio buttons and
> dropdown selections for the most common things.
>
> /Peter
>
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