[scribus] Master Pages for New Users and the Wiki

[Barry McKenna]

On 10/11/2012 1:15 AM, JLuc wrote:
> Le 10/10/2012 20:12, Barry McKenna a écrit :
>> However -- and I think this is the key issue in the logic/usability of
>> this feature -- the "Edit Master Pages" dialog
>> now contains the Imported Master Page, the new document reflects the
>> changes. The only option now is to click the
>> Windows dialog's 'X' icon button. When doing so, the new document
>> reverts to its original state, losing the Imported
>> Master Page's properties.
>
> This has been improved in the future coming 1.5 version.
>
>> This is not how Windows users are accustomed to using dialogs which
>> change some properties: After importing properties
>> or changing some properties, there should be, according to Windows
>> conventions, and "OK" button which when clicked
>> applies the imported or changed properties. However, in this
>> case/design another step is required, which is not
>> intuititive.
>
> Scribus is a cross platform application, using QT as a abstract
> interface to deal with various platforms with the same code. As a
> consequences, there are lots of area where the behavious is not as used.
> Scribus team sometime can improve which part of QT it uses, so as to
> better fit expectations, sometime not.
>
>> 7. Page > Apply Master Page > "Apply Master Page" dialog appears
>> listing in the drop-down edit box the current (Normal)
>> Master Page. In order to apply the desired Master Page -- which has
>> been imported but no longer shows as applied in the
>> document because it has reverted to Normal when the  "Edit Master
>> Pages" dialog's 'X' button (the only option at that
>> point) is clicked -- the drop-down edit box then needs to be opened
>> and the desired Imported Master Page applied.
>
> I got the feeling that you dont understand how masterpage work.
> Masterpages are NOT the text you wand to publish. Masterpages are tools
> to build your document. they will never be published as such. They are
> on your work table, ready to be used, as colors : ready to be applyed on
> some page.
>
> You say a masterpage "has been imported but no longer shows as applied"
> : that is because importing masterpages just increases your masterpage
> set, but dont apply them ! IT HAS NEVER BEEN APPLIED.

JLuc, It is quite clear to me that there is, in the Master Page Process, 
an essential distinction between "Importing A Master Page" -- as you 
say, putting on "your work table" -- and "Apply[ing] Master Page." I 
don't believe I ever referred to "text" nor have I conceptualized Master 
Pages about "Text" except in thinking about Master Pages that could 
contain Frames for various kinds of text, including page numbers.

As a long time user and likely one of the experts here - you - I am 
simply trying to re-awaken your eyes as a newbie and realize that when 
the desired Master Page is imported and the target document changes to 
reflect the properties of the desired Master Page, but then those 
desired properties disappear when the "Edit Master Page" dialog closes, 
the person unfamiliar and learning about the process is surely noticing 
that something is not quite "right." That is my point.

Thou protest too much, and forget that in this most complex of 
applications, changes should not become visible before the actual 
properties are Applied, or else those new to this "culture" of Scribus 
are likely to become confused.

I've been working with Scribus for many years, but only occasionally do 
I have to raise my learning curve to a new level, and acquire a new 
aspect of the Scribus "culture." This occurs for me as my research 
progresses and I begin to visualize an additional part of my book 
becoming actual, which until then has only been a haze on the future 
horizon.

I do not claim to be an expert. However, I have been programming in one 
language for more than 25 years, etc. I don't intend this to become a 
contest about who knows more. I simply suggest that you consider how 
various features impact people's ability to acquire the necessary 
conceptualization.

The bottom line is this, for me, and I suggest it's possible for many 
others: There is no other software that I use -- and I use many, 
including SQL, WordPress, etc. -- that can stress me out for hours like 
Scribus can. Only OpenOffice comes in a close second. Consider the 
levels of complexity involved in these.

It's also a question of documentation, which doesn't mean that I'm 
complaining that people aren't working hard enough here. It simply means 
that your attitude is potentially too dismissive of other people's 
conceptualization -- in this case mine -- of what is naturally expected 
in software processes and what is 'user friendly.'

If you insist on dismissing my offerings of suggestions then you won't 
receive any more. Is that what you want?

Barry

> To use masterpages you have to apply them to an existing document. IN
> the way you describe, or using the Manage Page window.
> For each page of the document, choose which masterpage should apply and
> then it applies.
>
>> I suggest that the following page is missing -- at least for a Windows
>> user -- some key information:
>> http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Working_with_Master_Pages
> This is a wiki. I suggest that you experiment more and use masterpages
> and understand perfectly what masterpages are all about
> and then you can edit the page and make it better
> for all scribus user's sake.
>
> JLuc
>
>
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