[scribus] tone marks - first follow up

Tue May 21 09:07:44 UTC 2013

Dear list, especially three people who have sent ideas,

I was off my desk for a few days due to director visit and major car
trouble.
Now I am back and I thank you for your input and suggestions.

I am a bit embarrassed that I got misunderstood by several people:
(Has anybody tried the sample text, that I had provided? Or do
attachments not work on this list? The text that was pasted (by a
robot?) into the mail, does not look right. It is still UTF-8, but
messed up.)

Maybe I will try a smaller sample, here directly in this mail:

---sample text for Scribus (please format with DejaVu)---
5a. é É ȩ́ Ȩ́ ẹ́ Ẹ́ é̱ É̱ ę́ Ę́ è È ę̀ Ę̀ ȩ̀ Ȩ̀ ẹ̀ Ẹ̀ è̱ È̱ Ê ê ē̂ Ē̂ ȩ̂ Ȩ̂ ệ Ệ ê̱ Ê̱ ë Ë ë̱́ Ë̱́
ë́ Ë́ Ë̀ ë̀ ë̂ Ë̂ ë̃ Ë̃ Ë̱ ë̱ ě Ě ȩ̌ ẹ̌ ě̱ ĕ Ĕ Ē ē ē̂ ẽ Ẽ ẽ́ Ẽ́ ẽ̀ Ẽ̀ ẽ̂ Ẽ̂ ẹ̃ Ẹ̃ Ę ę Ȩ ȩ Ẹ ẹ
Ḛ ḛ e̱ E̱ Ę ę e᷆ e᷇
5b. Ɛ́ ɛ́ Ɛ̀ ɛ̀ Ɛ̂ ɛ̂ Ɛ̈ ɛ̈ ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈̀ ɛ̈̀ Ɛ̱̈ ɛ̱̈ ɛ̌ ɛ̄ ɛ̃ Ɛ̃ Ɛ̰ ɛ̰ Ɛ̱ ɛ̱ ɛ᷆ ɛ᷇
5c. Ǝ́ ǝ́ Ǝ̀ ǝ̀ ǝ̂ Ǝ̈ ǝ̈ ǝ̌ ǝ̄ ǝ̃ Ǝ̃ Ǝ̰ ǝ̰
6. f̃ F̃ f̣ F̣
7. ġ Ġ g̈ G̈ ḡ Ḡ G̣ g̣ G̱ g̱
---end of sample text---

I got no font problems at all. There is a handful of good fonts out
there; several of those freely provided by my own organization (SIL). I
can use Charis SIL, gentium, Arial Unicode, Andika (for literacy
purposes), DejaVu etc etc. (You can use any of these fonts, to check my
sample text in Scribus.)

All those fonts carry all the characters we need. And we got no problems
getting them into Scribus.

We are veterans at programming our own keyboards, both for Linux and for
Windows.

I have even worked on fonts once or twice, making special
dual-letter-characters for the purpose of horizontal and vertical
cross-word-puzzle-use. (I did use fontforge.)

The problem (even if you do not like it), is that most programs show our
characters properly aligned (base vowel and combining tone mark) and
Scribus does not.

I told you that I believe, Scribus will eventually be able to handle
combining characters properly. All I need is a working solution for this
year (for now). I have a hunch that somebody else has already found a
reasonable working solution.

If you try my sample text and if my request is still unclear, please
shout. I might make the time and fight with internet you make some
screen shots. But I trust that you will be able to see my problem, if
you do the test.

---
I re-read Rolf's input again (thank you), and maybe I misunderstood him
in return: Of course it would be a sort of "solution" to forget about
combining characters, and make our own ready-combined set. (I did after
all ask for a trick or fix). Rolf, are you saying that there is no way,
that present-generation Scribus can handle combining characters properly?

I might be able to use fontforge to create each of our ten vowels (plus
ten Capitals) with each possible combination of two tone marks. I know
there are reserved spaces in Unicode for self-made stuff.
	But it would be the worst possible solution, almost an insult to the
very concept of Unicode: We would be isolated in our corner with our own
set of fonts. (We are doing publishing and journalism and want a
reasonable range of fonts, so for starters I would need to change at
least six fonts, plus variants (bold, italic).) And it would seriously
complicate our keyboarding. (So far we can fluently touch-type the
language, at first level keyboard: one character - one keystroke. That
would be a shame to loose. I would need to keep all text-work in
LibreOffice and only convert final copy by regex for Scribus.)
	And it would make any sort of partnering or sharing documents or
printing extremely bothersome, because we would always have the need to
include or mail our special fonts (and explain why they look like
Gentium but are not...).
	If this list will authoritatively tell me, that there is no way of
using combining characters in Scribus, then I might take the time to
create those combined characters. Would there be a website where I could
make that available to other African projects, who might have the same
needs? (Or are we possibly the only project using Scribus in a
Francophone African setting?)

Thank you so far, and for your patience with our special needs, please
write again.

Martin Zaske