[scribus] tone marks

Thu May 16 19:29:35 UTC 2013

Dear list,

thank you all for Scribus. I am new to the list but not to Scribus. We
are publishing literacy materials for an African language. See my humble
success story on your wiki in 2012 and/or look here:

www.revue-gugu.org

With recent development of the language, there are changes coming up for
the orthography. It will mean (one or more) tone marks on certain vowels
and possibly even certain consonants. (And it will help the population
to read more fluently, because ambiguity will be reduced.)

I have searched through some deep stuff, where your developers meet, and
what I understand is, that some time, there will be an entire re-write
of your "text-engine" or what you call that.

I can see that a lot of people from Asia are working and hoping for some
very complicated and wonderful functionality.

All we would need is some help, for correctly placing those famous
combining diacritical marks, listed as Unicode U+300 to U+036F. We only
need a fraction of those, and our vowels are these:

A a

Ǝ ǝ

E e

Ɛ ɛ

I i

Ɩ ɩ

O o

Ɔ ɔ

U u

Ʊ ʊ

Sadly our alphabet is not located in just one code page (like Greek or
Arabic), we are using the "crumbs off the table" from various
Latin-tables and even from IPA; because a few years back, Africa missed
the moment to lobby for their languages. But maybe the problem of
placing "the combinings" is not so much dependent on what the
"carrier-character" is?

I am not firstly an IT pro, but rather a linguist, who has to tweak many
IT things to get our languages to work. I taught myself some Linux but
have never had any joy compiling anything, because our internet is very
very very slow and I am forever behind with my versions (now just went
to OpenSuse 12.1) and I tend to always lack some crucial packets...

I am using Scribus 1.4.2 on OpenSuse and Windows 7 pro.

And I can follow instructions. If you could point me to some
documentation about what I need to get or how to go about placing those
tone marks nicely centred above my characters, that would be swell. If I
have specific hope for some precise tool or plug-in or version, I have
partners, who could download it and letter-mail it to me by SD-card.

I will attach some test-data, which was made by colleagues a while ago.
Our needs are much less, but it gives you an idea. Just copy&paste that
into a recent LibreOffice with a well-stocked font (like Andika), and it
should look "bad", but nicely so.

Then paste it into Scribus 1.4.2 (my latest) and the markers will go
wild (sideways). Not meant as a criticism.

I am aware that there were threads somewhere about much harder stuff. I
have patience and I see a great perspective for Scribus with a modern
text engine, and I will stay a faithful user, even training young
Africans to produce stuff. What I am hoping for right-now is some idea
for a temporary fix. Even if it involves some tricks or manual work, we
could maybe use those tricks, while we wait, for a better solution.

Example: I have found out that I can go with my cursor into a text and
manually grab (select) just one combining-character (it sadly turns
almost invisible when selected) and then I can manually move it sideways
with / Properties / Text / Advanced Settings / Manual Tracking.

This method would work for our headings, but might kill me for a
twenty-page A3-size magazine. So the tricks I am hoping for would be
maybe instructions on how to do a macro: Search for any vowel "e"
followed by U+0301 and select the U+0301 and track it to -19%. I hope
you understand what I mean.
	In real life, tone marks mainly have to go on the first vowel of
certain words, but most syllables are CV, so it mainly involves lower
case vowels. And we got only 10 of those and not more than hight-tone
and low-tone or no-tone, with possibly a combination of two tone marks
(nine possible combinations). So that would mean a complex macro or
running a batch of up to 90 macros.

I am getting long here, sorry. Maybe there is a much more elegant
solution out there.

Thank you very much for considering this request. Please do not be mad,
if it has already been resolved somewhere else. I did do searches, but
could not find anything. In that case please send me links.

To be honest: We cannot afford InDesign here. We do everything in
Scribus. And we are much involved with the key people who develop their
own language. If I was to find out, that using (two) tone marks is
"impossible" or "seriously beyond trained lay people" I might have the
opportunity to veto those new orthography ideas, as the
expert-expat-technician. "If it can't be done, we have to look for other
ways to write..."
	But it would be a shame, if literacy and linguistics would be limited
by mere technical challenges. This is a francophone part of the world,
and French is using those accents "everywhere" (but truly only on a
limited number of vowels and with ready-made Unicode characters like
U+00c9, U+00ec , or U+0204). So people perceive those markers as a
valuable way of adding extra-information to their orthography. They
would have a hard time understanding, why it can be printed for French
but not for their local vowels.

Greetings, Martin Zaske

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1a. á Á á̧ Á̧ á̜ ạ́ Ạ́ Á̱ á̱ ą́ Ą́ À à ą̀ Ą̀ à̧ À̧ ạ̀ Ạ̀ à̱ À̱ Â â â̧ Â̧ ậ Ậ â̱ Â̱ ä Ä ä́ Ä́ ä̀ Ä̀ ä̂ Ä̂ ä̌ Ä̌ ä̃ Ä̃ ä̱ Ä̱ ǎ Ǎ ǎ̧ Ǎ̧ ạ̌ Ạ̌ ǎ̱ Ǎ̱ Ă ă Ā ā Ā́ Ā̂ ā̂ ã Ã ã́ Ã́ ã̀ ã̀ Ã̀ ã̂ Ã̂ ạ̃ Ạ̃ Ą ą A̧ a̧ A̜ a̜ Ạ ạ A̰ a̰ a̱ A̱ 
1b. ɑ́ ɑ̱́ ɑ̀ ɑ̂ ɑ̈ ɑ̌ ɑ̆ ɑ̄ ɑ̄̂ ɑ̃ ɑ̃ ɑ̃̀ ɑ̊ ɑ̱ Ɑ́ Ɑ̀ Ɑ̂ Ɑ̌ 
1c. ǽ æ̰ 
2. b̃ B̃ Ḅ ḅ 
3a. ċ Ċ Č c̄ C̄ Ç ç c̱ C̱ č̣ 
3b. ɔ́ ɔ̀ ɔ̂ ɔ̈ ɔ̈́ ɔ̈̀ ɔ̱̈ ɔ̌ ɔ̄ ɔ̃ ɔ̃̀ ɔ̰ ɔ̱ ɔ᷆ ɔ᷇ Ɔ́ Ɔ̀ Ɔ̂ Ɔ̈ Ɔ̈́ Ɔ̈̀ Ɔ̱̈ Ɔ̌ Ɔ̃ Ɔ̰ Ɔ̱ 
4. ḍ Ḍ ḏ Ḏ ð̣ 
5a. é É ȩ́ Ȩ́ ẹ́ Ẹ́ é̱ É̱ ę́ Ę́ è È ę̀ Ę̀ ȩ̀ Ȩ̀ ẹ̀ Ẹ̀ è̱ È̱ Ê ê ē̂ Ē̂ ȩ̂ Ȩ̂ ệ Ệ ê̱ Ê̱ ë Ë ë̱́ Ë̱́ ë́ Ë́ Ë̀ ë̀ ë̂ Ë̂ ë̃ Ë̃ Ë̱ ë̱ ě Ě ȩ̌ ẹ̌ ě̱ ĕ Ĕ Ē ē ē̂ ẽ Ẽ ẽ́ Ẽ́ ẽ̀ Ẽ̀ ẽ̂ Ẽ̂ ẹ̃ Ẹ̃ Ę ę Ȩ ȩ Ẹ ẹ Ḛ ḛ e̱ E̱ Ę ę e᷆ e᷇ 
5b. Ɛ́ ɛ́ Ɛ̀ ɛ̀ Ɛ̂ ɛ̂ Ɛ̈ ɛ̈ ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈̀ ɛ̈̀ Ɛ̱̈ ɛ̱̈ ɛ̌ ɛ̄ ɛ̃ Ɛ̃ Ɛ̰ ɛ̰ Ɛ̱ ɛ̱ ɛ᷆ ɛ᷇ 
5c. Ǝ́ ǝ́ Ǝ̀ ǝ̀ ǝ̂ Ǝ̈ ǝ̈ ǝ̌ ǝ̄ ǝ̃ Ǝ̃ Ǝ̰ ǝ̰ 
6. f̃ F̃ f̣ F̣ 
7. ġ Ġ g̈ G̈ ḡ Ḡ G̣ g̣ G̱ g̱ 
8. ḣ Ḣ ẖ H̱ 
9a. í Í ī́ Ī́ Í̧ í̧ í̜ ị́ Ị́ Í̱ í̱ ì Ì ĩ̀ į̀ Į̀ ì̧ Ì̧ ị̀ Ị̀ ì̱ Ì̱ î Î ī̂ Ī̂ Î̧ ị̂ Ị̂ î̱ Î̱ Ï ï ḯ Ḯ ï̀ Ï̀ ï̂ Ï̂ ï̃ Ï̃ ï̱ Ï̱ ǐ Ǐ Ǐ̧ ǐ̧ ị̌ ǐ̱ Ĭ ĭ Ī ī Ī̀ ī̂ ĩ ĩ ĩ Ĩ ĩ́ Ĩ́ Ĩ̀ ĩ̀ Ĩ̂ ĩ̂ ị̃ ị̃ Ị̃ Į į I̧ i̧ i̜ i̜̱ Ị ị Ḭ ḭ I̱ i̱ i᷆ i᷇ 
9b. ɨ́ Ɨ́ ɨ̀ Ɨ̀ ɨ̂ Ɨ̂ ɨ̈ Ɨ̈ Ɨ̌ ɨ̌ ɨ̄ Ɨ̄ ɨ̃ ɨ̰ Ɨ̰ Ɨ̱ ɨ̱ 
9c. ɩ́ Ɩ́ ɩ̀ Ɩ̀ ɩ̂ Ɩ̂ ɩ̌ ɩ̃ Ɩ̃ ɩ̰ Ɩ̰ ɩ᷆ ɩ᷇ 
10. j̃ j̣ J̣ 
11. k̇ K̇ K̄ k̄ Ḳ ḳ ḵ Ḵ 
12. Ḷ ḷ L̥ l̥ ḻ Ḻ 
13. Ḿ ḿ m̀ M̀ m̂ m̄ M̄ m̃ M̃ Ṃ ṃ M̱ m̱
14a. Ń ń ǹ Ǹ n̂ N̄ Ñ Ṇ ṇ Ṉ ṉ 
14b. ɲ́ ɲ̄ 
14c. Ŋ́ ŋ́ Ŋ̀ ŋ̀ Ŋ̂ ŋ̂ ŋ̃ Ŋ̃ Ŋ̣ ŋ̣ 
15a. ó Ó ó Ó ṓ Ṓ Ó̧ ó̧ ó̜ Ọ́ ọ́ ó̱ Ó̱ Ǫ́ ǫ́ ò Ò Ṑ õ̀ ǫ̀ Ǫ̀ ò̧ Ò̧ ọ̀ Ọ̀ ò̱ Ò̱ Ô ô ō̂ ô̧ Ô̧ Ộ ộ ô̱ Ô̱ ö Ö ö́ Ö́ ö̀ Ö̀ Ö̂ ö̃ Ö̃ ö̱ Ö̱ ǒ Ǒ ǒ̧ Ǒ̧ ọ̌ Ọ̌ ǒ̱ Ǒ̱ Ŏ ŏ Ŏ Ō ō ō Ṑ õ Õ Õ ṍ Ṍ õ̀ Õ̀ Õ̂ ọ̃ Ọ̃ Ǫ ǫ O̧ o̧ O̜ o̜ O̜̱ Ọ ọ O̰ o̰ o̱ O̱ Ǫ ǫ o᷆ o᷇ 
15b. ɵ́ ǿ Ǿ ø̱ Ø̱ 
15c. œ́ œ̀ œ̂ œ̌ 
16. ṗ Ṗ p̄ P̄ p̃ P̃ P̱ 
18. ř r̃ R̃ Ṛ ṛ r̥ Ṟ ṟ 
19. ṡ Ṡ š Š ṣ̌ Ş ş Ṣ ṣ 
20. Ṫ ṫ T̄ t̄ Ţ ţ ṭ Ṭ ṯ Ṯ 
21a. ú Ú Ū́ Ú̧ ú̧ ú̜ ụ́ Ụ́ Ú̱ ú̱ ù Ù ù̃ ù̧ Ù̧ ụ̀ Ụ̀ ù̱ Ù̱ Û û ū̂ Ū̂ û̧ Û̧ ụ̂ Ụ̂ û̱ Û̱ ü Ü ǘ̱ Ǘ̱ ǘ Ǘ ǜ Ǜ ü̂ ü̃́ Ü̃́ ü̃ ü̃ Ü̃ ü̱ Ü̱ ǔ Ǔ ǔ̧ Ǔ̧ ụ̌ Ụ̌ ǔ̱ Ǔ̱ ŭ Ŭ ū Ū Ū̀ ũ Ũ ṹ Ṹ ũ̀ Ũ̀ ũ̂ ụ̃ Ụ̃ U̧ u̧ U̜ u̜ u̜̱ Ụ ụ Ṵ ṵ u̱ U̱ 
21b. ʉ́ ʉ̀ ʉ̂ ʉ̈ ʉ̌ ʉ̱ Ʉ́ Ʉ̀ Ʉ̂ Ʉ̈ Ʉ̌ Ʉ̱ 
21c. Ʊ́ ʊ́ Ʊ̀ ʊ̀ Ʊ̂ ʊ̂ Ʊ̌ ʊ̌ 
22a. ṽ Ṽ Ṿ ṿ 
22b. ʋ́ Ʋ́ ʋ̀ Ʋ̀ ʋ̂ Ʋ̂ ʋ̃ Ʋ̃ ʋ̰ Ʋ̰ 
23. ẅ Ẉ ẉ w̰ w̱ W̱ w̱ 
24. x̱ X̱ 
25. Ỵ ỵ 
27. Ź ž Ž ẓ̌ z̆ Z̆ ẓ̆ Ẓ̆ z̃ Z̃ Ẓ ẓ 
28. ˩˦˥˧˨ ꜖꜓꜒꜔꜕